Curse

BahamutKaiser · May 12, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I read some of the statements on the site to look for incite on how the game will develop and they mentioned adding expansions in the future with new chapters, things, and new classes....................... YESSSSSSS!

I'm interested in seeing some new classes, I realy want to see this game expand, it just came out and I'm already ready for more. Skip to the bold Shinobi marker if you dont want to know about my reasoning.

Anyhow, I figured that most of these classes are simular to Diablo 2 with a little mix and match and some originality. The one least noted is the Assassin, so I'm expecting some sort of Druid and Assassin class to become available in the expansions (kind of like D2 oddly).

I realy don't know how they would work Druid, I suppose it would be a shape shifter, I'm not real interested in that though. I'm interested in seeing a Shinobi class, call it assassin if they have too.

I noticed a thread about having a thief/rouge job which was good at backstabbing. But with the skill diversity I think thats kind of short sighted, and thief is realy about stealing not fighting and being a "rouge" isn't a real combatant role either. Somebody mentioned Ninja in the same thread, and was rebutled in the next post that real ninjas arn't the fighters people have associated with the name.

I copied this from a post elsewhere.
"Ninjutsu -

Ninjutsu, also called shinobi-jutsu, is a collection of techniques originally practiced for espionage purposes. It includes methods of spying, confusing enemies, and gathering information. Ninjutsu can also involve training in disguise, escape, concealment, geography, meteorology, medicine, and explosives. Practitioners of ninjutsu have in the past been seen, at least in legend, as assassins for hire, and have been associated in the public imaginatio.

Ninja on the other had...

Ninja or Shinobi, literally, "One who is concealed" were agents of espionage and assassination, trained in the Japanese art of ninjutsu (roughly the art of stealth). Ninja, like samurai, followed their own special code of conduct, called ninpo. According to some modern practitioners of budo ninjutsu, the ninja's specialty was not assassination but rather espionage.

The only thing i found about there fighting style is that it's a mixed of martial arts, They combine the best of all fighting philosophies to do what works. As the fighters change, what is considered to be the best mixed martial arts style is changing as well. In the beginning of the mixed martial arts revolution, ground fighting and Jujitsu wrestling was the most important factor. Today, a fighter must also know how to kick and punch. A pure wrestler or Jujitsu artist cannot beat an effective puncher, kicker and ground fighter. Training in Ninjutsu involves learning rolls, breakfalls, locks and strikes. It also involves learning both armed and unarmed combat. As with other arts, it also involves learning various kamae and kata."

Basicly Ninjas are spies by proffesion. But from what I know (simply from being oriental) martial arts is a normal part of oriental culture, and Ninjas would master many martial arts. In Korea PE is called Tai Kwan Do, many native orientals take the basics of marital arts as common exersises, it's only natural that Oriental spies would be exeptional martial artists.

Shinobi

I thought it would be cool if they made a Shinobi class, specializing in melee combat using mulitple marial arts and exclusivly using espionage techniques (primary attribute).

Shinobi, Ninja or Assassin would do fine as a name, but as this is an idea based on realistic Shinobi I think it should be called Shinobi instead of Assassin. The Attributes could be Ninjitsu (primary trait), Kung Fu, Wing Chung, and Kenjutsu. Basicly the 3 shared attributes all focus on different fighting styles, Kung Fu being a diverse fighting style most unarmed techniques, Wing Chung is an art that focuses on close quarter combat with a vast array of weaponry and hand to hand, and Kenjutsu which is the code of the Samurai which would be assigned to large katana weilding in this example. The primary trait Ninjitsu would posses camoflauge, escape, misdirection and backstabing techniques.

As for function of each attibute and what kind of attacks to use in each....

Kung Fu would be unarmed combat moves, doing bashing type damage, no weapon used, and using skills which exploit lower armor class, interupting opponents skills and more. Points added to this attribute would increase the damage of hand to hand attacks and increase the number of times the character hits with each attack, starting with a 2 punch move, at 3 and 6 points another hit would be added to each attack cycle after each 3 points after that would generate more powerful attack combos which would randomly alternate on attack. Because Kung Fu attacks without weapons the attacks would be weak fast pace hits doing poor damage on hard armored foes, but well against soft armored foes or solid type foes (rock or elementals)
Wing Chung would be the dual wielding attribute (linked to a variety of ninja weapons from small katana, claws, and single handed medium katana), 1 point in Wing Chung allows players to equit 2 single-handed weapons of any sort, attacking at about the speed of a 2 handed weapon. Moves in this category would include counter and defense moves used to reduce damage and turn enemy strikes against them, activating most counter moves would automaticly block and attack the next melee hit directed at them from the enemy they are targeting, not all ajacent opponents. This would be useful for 1 on 1 melee combat and tanking, the simular to domination magic in melee form punishing or hampering the enemy for attacking (mostly melee). Additional points in this attribute would increase chance to block with 2 weapons, not increasing damage, so ninjas would not be able to power up thier dual weapon attacks with this attribute, this is basicly thier defense trait.
Kenjutsu would be speical attack class, with moves that work souly with the large 2 handed katana, the damage on the katana would be the highest with the slowest attack cycle. This models the art of samurai swordsmanship which develops educated powerful attacks to dispatch enemies in the least amount of swings, when attacking with large katana the attacks cycles would be slow but the damage would be high, the animation wouldn't be a slow hit thought it would be an infrequent attack that looks blisteringly fast. The moves in this Attribute would be mostly signets Katas modeling the tenants of Kenjutsu, they would have vary greatly in use, from defensive skills that counter to special attacks that hit very hard and or lunge toward the target, the signet moves would be on balanced reuse times so they are infrequent but potent. Added points in this attribute would increase damage and chance of critical using a large katana (2 handed).

The primary attribute is the Ninjitsu Attribute, skills associated with this Attribute would allow the ninja to turn invisible (but you can still target them), execute backstabing/assassin moves, escape moves, and setup ambushes (which are traps that involve planting your character and executing the move when the enemy approches). Added points in this Attribute would combine thier attack classes, for every other point in Ninjitsu the ninja gains a 1% chance to execute a Kung Fu attack along with his normal attack (if he's using Kung Fu it would do 2 attacks in a row, if using other melee weapons it would follow up his regular attack with a unarmed attack), the power and number of punches executed would be dependant on how many points are in Kung Fu, for the alternate point (every other) it would increase chance of critical strike by 1% with any attack or weapon. Basicly he would gain 0.5% chance to do critical hits and/or added unarmed attacks with each point in ninjitsu.

The Kung Fu attribute increases unarmed attack damage and number of hits in unarmed attacks (not critical), the Wing Chung attribute would increase chance to block wile using 2 weapons as well as allowing 2 single handed weapons to be used, and the Kenjutsu Attribute would increase damage and critical for large 2 handed katana, these are available for any job using Shinobi as thier secondary. But as a Primary class points in Ninjitsu would add chance of critical to any attacks they use (Kenjutsu is the only one with increased critical in its attribute so it would have even higher critical chance with points in ninjitsu as well), and a chance to add an unarmed attack with each hit wile using any weapon. Using Warrior/Shinobi would allow Warriors to equipt dual swords or axes becoming just like Barbarians in D2, adding points in strength and sword/axe attributes to increase the damage wile adding points in Wing Chung to increase block rate. Using Kung Fu in any class would allow unarmed attacks which don't include weapons, and better yet, mages can use kenjutsu simply for the infrequent/powerful signet skills wile avoiding continuous combat.

The Shinobi armor class would be simular to ranger, not very tough, but thier gloves and boots would add attack damage to unarmed attacks, increasing thier damage slightly in unarmed hits, spiked gloves or brass knucles on the hands and spiked, bladed, or whatever on the boots as well. The Shinobi class would be a sneak up and hit em class, they can reduce damage received greatly against solo melee attacks with Wing Chung, having a move which deflects projectile attacks for a short period would do well too, but in general thier best defense would be Ninjitsu moves which allow them to dash a short distance, making them good chasers and escapers, as well as a shadow move which allows them to melt and reappear behind a target, but continuous attacks or spells could pummel him just as fast as a caster if they arn't avoided.

Shinobi Class seams totaly overpowered when you add all this up, but just like the current classes, they will only be able to use 8 of the dozens of skills they will get in the game and they will have to wage thier attribute points between thier attributes, limiting the amount of techniques they can use. But this class supports versitile attribute allocation better then the exsisting classes, favoring allocation in ninjitsu, kung fu, and either wing chung or kenjutsu, because ninjistu adds kung fu attacks to any of thier attacks. This means that players using Shinobi will be more likely switch weapon types during battle and use skills from kung fu, wing chung and or kenjutsu together; Most other classes (Warrior and Ranger) support loading your points into 1 weapon attribute and using only skills related to that single weapon. So players could develop Kung Fu Shinobi to constantly run around knocking enemies over preventing them from attacking wile doing frequent pittering attacks, or make Wing Chung shinobi to tank some and goad enemies into triggering counters, or use kenjutsu shinobi to run around executing powerful moves, or...... use ninjitsu shinobi to sneak up on players and use devistating assasin moves or any healthy combination of these.

Most of the skills would be adrenalin moves or low energy moves with the execption of assassination skills, and the 7 kata of kenjutsu would all be signet skills which take a moment to execute and have high refresh times so you can't use them often along with a few dash attacks which cost enegy or adrenalin, because of the limited space your unlikely to see a Shinobi sporting all 7 kenjutsu signets (along with being difficult to earn the last few of them) but if they did use all of them in succession it would be certain death for thier opponent, unless you use some skill to interupt him or counter them.

Many of the Shinobi skills would be very powerful and hard hitting, but those powerful skills would require casting time just like a spell and the required adrenalin, moves in Kung Fu expecially would cause the Shinobi to pause his attack momentarily, so they would actually lose the damage created by thier continuous attacks when using certain powerful skills, wile others would be instant hits for interupting or knocking enemies over, very fast skills.

Anyhow, I thought this up wile at work, because I don't have enough to think about, and I thought it would be a cool and fun job to add some style, and an attractive class (because we all dreamed about becoming Ninjas when we were kids, but we were dreaming).

Xellos · May 12, 2005, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Shinobi...in a western fantasy medieval type world...I can see it now...

KAGE BUNSHIN NO JUTSU

KATON RYUUKA NO JUTSU

RAAAASSEEENNNGAAAAAANNN

CHIIDOOORRIII

I R ITACHI I AM GODMODE

KAKASHI FANBOI/GURL ^_____________^

Sorry, but this is too hilarious in my mind to pass up. It'd be like seeing a lamborgini in a star wars movie, cool? Sorta. Out of place? Completely.

Yuji Storm · May 12, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Monk should have been melee >> and they should have made the current monk 'Priest' or something along those lines..

ohwell, they can still add brawler.. or fist fighter class of some sort.

but that's not entirely what you're talking about.. you're talking .. assasin/thief, with ninja and monk skills o.o

BahamutKaiser · May 12, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

If you read the educated description of Shinobi you would see that the idea for the class compliments the true nature of Ninjas. The fact that these are abilities and traits used by such jobs called thief, rogue, ninja, monk or whatever in other games doesn't have anything to do with what ninja realy is.

And as for seeing "Culturaly Eastern" classes in the game breaking the "Western Fantasy" image, Monk already models closely to asian martial arts behavior.

As a side note, they could allow Monks to fight unarmed without the Kung Fu attribute from Shinobi, and give them some hand gear to increase such, but I think it's your understanding of monk that escues your point of view. Monks arn't martial artists by nature, when you think more along the lines of catholic monks and church monks you get the more realistic view of what a monk realy is (which is what they are in this game). Your idea of martial artist monks comes from the association which comes from oriental monks who knew martial arts, and are magnified as such in movies. To which I stated already, that most orientals practice martial arts as a natural way of life, whether it be spy, warrior, leader, or monistarty grounds keeper (monk). But Spies of any genre, be it oriental or otherwise, are often execptional in martial arts as part of thier neccissarry life style, so when you mix orientals who lean toward martial arts, and spies who lean towards martial arts you get ninjas who are prodigies of excellence in martial arts. It's not hard to understand, you just have to think about it from a enlightened point of view (I'm Korean and martial arts have been passed on to me), consider yourself enlightened.

Yuji Storm · May 12, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I'm thinking of videogame monks :P .. all of my views on professions are based on similar professions I've encountered from numerous games. So I'm not exactly -wrong- I just have a different meaning to my words.

Cybrosys · May 12, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I second adding a "ninja" type job. It would be nice, i mean there are going to be expansions, and ninjas/assasins/infiltrators have always existed no matter where or when.

Though, going bare hand to hand combat is pushing it, i would like to see some sort of assasin job that uses daggers or crossbows, hitting a mob 10+ times a second *rawr, powwa*. I hardly believe that pre-aschalon was all peace and happy happy with no burglars, thiefs or murderers, so i can't see how adding such a job with an expansion would in any way threaten the integrity of the game and/or it's settings.

I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of new jobs with the next expansion, because it would realy help breathe life into the original game and extend it's life span.

Dubby · May 12, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuji Storm

Monk should have been melee >> and they should have made the current monk 'Priest' or something along those lines..

ohwell, they can still add brawler.. or fist fighter class of some sort.

but that's not entirely what you're talking about.. you're talking .. assasin/thief, with ninja and monk skills o.o

Hey :0 Check my post, I've already mentioned a quite detailed rogue/thief/ninja/whateveryouwanttocallthem and martial artist
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=9843

BahamutKaiser · May 12, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

In the end, Thievery is a way of life not a job class. Thieves are people who steal from others, theif class couldn't use stealing moves on enemies in PVP which would totaly negate the defining role of a thief class, the title is deficient. Furthermore, there are already thiefs and bandits in the game, and they are enemies, multiple quests revolve around taking down bandits and traitors, making a thief class goes hand in hand with using Char characters, you would have to make a totaly seperate storyline for players to play on the opposite side of the law.

Shinobi, or Ninja if thats easier for you, is a class that can include techniques and abilities which are common to thievery, but have much more breadth in martial arts, camoflauge, assassinry, and weapon wielding. This gives Shinobi/Ninja class options to be fully developed in many skills and attributes, very simply, Shinobi would be able to cover any thing a Thief class could do, but Thief doesn't relate to half as much as Shinobi does, nor is thief nearly as interesting or attractive as playing a Ninja.

All the classes need a large cache of skills in multiple attributes to compete with other jobs, furthermore, these skills have to be unique, because combination skills come from combining 2 unique classes. It is very poor to make a thief class that has crossbows because it crosses the Rangers teritory, furthermore, the Ranger is already simular to a thief or rouge, with thier leather clad get up, face mask, and trap setting, wile excluding the unavailable skill to steal stuff (which is the only thing that distinquishes him from a thief, and stealing is something that shouldn't be in this game). Think Robin Hood.

As for bearing your image of monk from other games as a fighting class, that is totaly ignorant. Monks of any kind are seekers of spiritual enlightenment, which is alot closer to rightiousness and healing powers rather then hand to hand combat. Combat worthy monks are just a novilty, it is your INACCURATE point of view that leads you to think monk as a combatants, they are closer related with spritual powers rather then melee combat.

As for switching monk to priest, which is basicly the same thing as monk, priests are spiritual leaders in a religious sect, which can be good or evil, such as a necromancer priest or priest to an evil god. Furthermore Priest are spritual leaders of a religion, the only "religion" in ascolon is the belief in the ancient Gods, which all classes praise to thier specified dieties, so you could just as well be a necromancer priest of Grenth just as soon as a holy priest of Dwayna or even a Mesmer priest of Lyssa. Priest class is a shortsighted title, whereas Monks seek spritual enlightenment, mostly and commonly through pacifism (although you can just as well consider evil monks in escued circumstances). The point being, Monk is actually a more accurate title then priest, it is your point of view that is inaccurate. The association of class titles in other games isn't a legitimate arguement to change a title in this game when it is actually more accurate to the reality of the title, and this game sets it's own background and reality not bound to uphold the misunderstandings of other games.

And by the way, a belief in a falsehood is incorrcet or wrong, and ideas that stem from title relations that are inaccurate are also wrong. It's no different then believing in a false algebra equation, you may be doing the equation right, but if the equation is false then so you are wrong even if you get the equation right. Your free to feel and think what you like, but when you present them to others you suffer the complication of volitifying them through legitimate means, if your ideas don't add up then you idea has no volitity to someone else, therefor, telling me you think otherwise because of false sources only prove yourself wrong, and means nothing to me nor does it defend your point of view.

Xellos · May 13, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

And as for seeing "Culturaly Eastern" classes in the game breaking the "Western Fantasy" image, Monk already models closely to asian martial arts behavior.

Not true. Monks currently only have a eastern dance, and emotes are never appropriate. That would be like saying the Elaine Dance somehow came from King Arthurs age.

The monk might look a bit eastern, but even look at his armour pieces, definately not from eastern origin. The faces are a bit oriental, but that's just giving variety and not being racist.

Which skill does monk have that resembles eastern techniques so much? I can name none. Most of the skills are holy based, or divine. Eastern monks are not based on holy or divine, but rather on Buddha.

BahamutKaiser · May 13, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

The point is that they could add eastern elements to make a place for Shinobi job, or even easier then that, they could simply make them visitors or pilgrims which end up in ascolon. I have little doubt that they will add a druid and assassin type job, they will add something, and it will be different, and it will probably be something that would naturally originate from elsewhere as it was not available to begin with. How they make it, and what skills they give it are the issues to contemplate; Most other class suggestion ideas I've read so far are short sighted, don't bring a unique role to the game, many are far to simular to other jobs to hold a unique class. Shinobi is perfect for an expansion class, how to fit it in the storyline is a medial task.

Cybrosys · May 13, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Instead of trying to alter an existing class to be a Shinobi, why not try to design a completely new class that, as BahamutKaiser said, doesn't invade any current class' skills or designated usage area, such as using bows.

As i've made myself clear with my previous post, i would like to have a ninja "type" class that would be able to deliver massive amounts of hits in a short period of time. (Fast paced adrenaline action, sexy dark assasin look *rawr* ^^)

I have to say that creating a class that does interfere with another's usage area isn't something that should be prohibited 100%. Why you ask? Well first off, the game's existing class' already do so, Messmer and Necromancer both use skills that would classify as debuffing another character, putting a curse on them and so on, hence invading each other's usage area.

Making another type of melee class type, say Ninja, wouldn't be impossible. Another type of spellcaster rivaling the Elementalist wouldn't be impossible to add either, maybe create a class called "Summoner". Though the Necromancer fills the Summoner's shoes in an undead way i only gave it as a short example of another type of spellcaster.

Creating a straight-up "Ninja" class wouldn't be possible because it needs to have alot more twist to it to offer a new and unique playing experience. At the moment just adding it would interfere too greatly with existing class' usage areas.

Oh and BahamutKaiser, you said that it wouldn't be possible to add a "Thief" because they're evil and would be consiered a parallel to creating a Charr character. Well, concerning a thief being Evil... might i draw your attention to the necromancer class. Could you please point out anything about the Necromancer that isn't EVIL XD Gimme a break

If there are good necromancers, there sure as hell can be good thiefs/assasins etc working for the king or the prince against the Charr. (Even if it is a temporary solution, mankind against a bigger threat)

Xellos · May 13, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The point is that they could add eastern elements to make a place for Shinobi job, or even easier then that, they could simply make them visitors or pilgrims which end up in ascolon. I have little doubt that they will add a druid and assassin type job, they will add something, and it will be different, and it will probably be something that would naturally originate from elsewhere as it was not available to begin with. How they make it, and what skills they give it are the issues to contemplate; Most other class suggestion ideas I've read so far are short sighted, don't bring a unique role to the game, many are far to simular to other jobs to hold a unique class. Shinobi is perfect for an expansion class, how to fit it in the storyline is a medial task.

If you say so, but if Narutards ever start spewing from Guild Wars and change the game into Rasengan vs Chidori action, your to blame :P

Yuji Storm · May 13, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

In the end, Thievery is a way of life not a job class. Thieves are people who steal from others, theif class couldn't use stealing moves on enemies in PVP which would totaly negate the defining role of a thief class

In Ragnarok Online one the thief classes were able to 'strip' equipment during PvP, which wouldn't steal the equipment, but rather unequip it so the person they were fighting wouldn't have it's benefits. The target also wouldn't be able to re-equip it for a short period of time.

BahamutKaiser · May 13, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Striping equiptment is too powerful, these characters dont have defensive stats to go along with thier armor. And ragnarok is another FF rip off.

Thief isn't a combat class, just like monk, it is associated with backstabing and sneaking around, but thievery revolves around taking what is not yours. Thiefs being evil, which wasn't what I ment, doesn't realy matter, what matters is that thiefs are already a type of enemy in the game, and they arn't a certain class, they are enemy humans who are against the law.

Shinobi is what it is, a spy/assassin/martial art class, yes it would have some simular moves, since it is a melee fighter like warrior who uses adrinalen moves, which are almost exclusive to the warrior right now, wile many caster classes are much more simular. This is a great reason to have another melee job to balanced the difference between the 1 melee, 1 ranged, and 4 casters.

Thief will always be inferior to Shinobi, end discussion, it could be placed as a job, but no matter how you consider a thief it will never have the potential of ninja as a class, ninjas are better, ninjas are better at stealing then thiefs are, and thats all thievery realy entails. Yes, thiefs can be backstabbers, trickers, burgalers, bandits, armed robbers, and whatever else, but they can also be warriors, monks, necromancer, and anyone else. The only requirement to be a thief in reality is to take something thats not yours, try it, go take a candy bar from a gas station, congratulations your a thief, that's all thief is, what else a thief can do isn't dependant on being a thief. Shinobi are trained spies, exeptional assassins, martial artists, and good with camoflauge, these are things they need to be just to be a ninja.

You can argue it into the ground, but you have no legitimate cons to bring up on shinobi, and your thief idea is just like your monk idea, ignorant, it doesn't mean anything to me because I'm presenting my Shinobi idea here, take your thief idea and it's defense to another thread, your boring me.

Xenogyst · May 13, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Shinobi... Oh, you mean a you want a Rogue profession.

Letos Mondlicht · May 13, 2005, 12:12 PM // 12:12

i postet something similar in an other thread ;-)
but i think it should be a dagger class not a h2h class: here my suggestion again:

My suggestion would be a Assasine/Spy class (not a thief class because the story line wont wont work with them because thiefs are considered as evil/enemies)

This Class would par up with Wars, but in a different direction.
Defense: would be between ranger and spellcasters.
Attack: on par with a Warrior, but not heavy hitting, more like fast hitting
with lower dmg

The 5 Attributes:
Fast Attack (Primary)
Dagger (Secondary)
Dual Wield (Secondary)
Assasination (Secondary)
Spying (Secondary)

Fast hitting: works similar to Fast Casting but for melee skills/ normal attacks

Dagger: works like sword/axe/hammer attributes

Dual Wield: this attribute is a little bit more complicated , and in order to not overpower this i came up with an nice solution (i think). The weapon which is in the second hand will miss to an extend. Inceasing this attribute will incease the hit chance of the second weapon aswell the skills tied to it.

Also i think it would be go to limit the weapons which the second hand can hold. So only all daggers , only short swords , and some kind of axes (which looks small) could be equipped so it wont look stupid.

Assaination: will be focusing on ranget attacks, and introduse a new weapon class, Throwing Weapons: Shuriken, Boomerrangs, Darts. They Disable the second hand like bow. The Skills will focus, poisen, desesing ... and such skills.

Spying: This Skills will include Thief and Copy Skills. Aswell some Disabling/Slowing / Chaning Skills

BahamutKaiser · May 14, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Compared to Warrior, who has 3 different weapon classes, Kung Fu, Wing Chung and Kenjutsu would cover the 3 different damage types, and give him branching abilities like all the other jobs.

Phaedrus · May 14, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Ninjas are sweet. They wield Real Ultimate Power. Guild Wars needs a class that wields Real Ultimate Power.

www.realultimatepower.net

[ ]

TheZoologist · May 14, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

1. Ninjas are mammals.

2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

I think that settles the argument. Ninjas are TOO powerful for this game. They would never dance. They'd only fight. That would suck.

Jericho · May 14, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Wow. Best laugh I've had all morning. This is a tremendously stupid thread.

Basically you pitched a poorly-conceived idea for a class based almost completely on your own ninja wet dreams, then spent the rest of the thread calling people ignorant and proclaiming "OH MAN NINJAS ARE TOTALLY COOL AND SWEET AND AWESOME, AND THEY TOTALLY PWN THIEFS ALL THE TIME SO YOU BETTER SHUT UP CUZ THIEFS SUCK!!"

Guild Wars has no need for a rogue class (or master elite ninja shinobi otaku hanyou demon yojimbo, and whatever else you Megatokyo fans would like to call it), and if you think so you need to step back and examine PvP dynamics. Because face it, this is a PvP game, and AN would never introduce a class solely for PvE encounters.

GW already has a melee damage class, it's called a warrior. In PvP warriors cease to become "tanks" in the traditional PvE sense and become exactly what you're proposing, a close combat damage dealer. They already do extra damage when chasing targets or attacking from behind, so there's no need for a class that specializes in this. I think it's hilarious that you're calling other people's ideas short-sighted when you've failed to realize this yourself. Exactly what would the "unique role" of the Shinobi be then? Traps (oh I'm sorry, AMBUSHES)? Rangers have those. Sprint (oh I'm sorry, NINJITSU DASH!!)? No, I'm pretty sure there's a class that has that too. Tactical weapon switching? That doesn't strike me as so bad, but not enough to base a class on alone.

Stealth? Haha, stealth. Stealth has no place in this flavor of PvP. It's been suggested before and I'll rebut it the same way: Arena-based PvP like found in Guild Wars makes stealth pointless. Some guy suggested being able to camouflage your team so they could ambush their enemies, right... Like they would just stroll into the middle of the arena thinking "Hmh, I wonder where the other team could be!" Even on an invidual basis, it's the same thing. You'll count up the other team in the first few seconds, and if you find only six or seven you'll tell your team there's a stealther afoot and whoever brought the anti-stealth skills should turn them on (because if there is stealth, there will be anti-stealth). Click, stealth now useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Most of the skills would be adrenalin moves or low energy moves with the execption of assassination skills, and the 7 kata of kenjutsu would all be signet skills which take a moment to execute and have high refresh times so you can't use them often along with a few dash attacks which cost enegy or adrenalin, because of the limited space your unlikely to see a Shinobi sporting all 7 kenjutsu signets (along with being difficult to earn the last few of them) but if they did use all of them in succession it would be certain death for thier opponent, unless you use some skill to interupt him or counter them.

Wrong. If you create a build that has access to certain death, even for a single opponent, you will never see a group without that build again. No class should ever have a smite button.

Also, AN will never introduce real-world references like "Wing Chun" to the GW canon for the same reason Warriors don't get "Spanish Broadsword Stance" and monks don't have "Buddha's Serenity". They reference real life history and have no place in a fantasy setting.

Why don't you just go out and rent a ninja game, if you want to be a ninja so badly? There are lots, and it would provide you with more immediate satisfaction than pining away on the forums for a change that will never, ever come.